Sin, I say, is a synonym for human nature. Hence, the flesh is invariably regarded as unclean John Thomas, Elpis Israel, p. 114 "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
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Is there Scriptural evidence for believing that our physical nature is "sin" rather than the environment in which sin dwells?

To restate the question, this individual wants to know if there is ANY Scriptural evidence for believing that our physical nature is called "sin" in the Bible. By "the environment in which sin dwells" the questioner, who (unwittingly) teaches clean-flesh, means the mind or thinking, not the body.

The answer is yes, the body is plainly called "sin" in the Bible. A lot of people stumble from the very beginning due to a preconception of what the word "sin" is - leaning solely on the definition of "sin is the transgression of the law". That is a definition, but not the definition of "sin". Sin, in it's most comprehensive definition is "to miss the mark" - whether morally (transgression) or physically. Mankind was initially created with the intention of sharing in God's glory, both physically and morally. Mankind has "missed the mark" both physically and morally. Due to the events in Eden, we are created (in the womb) in that fallen state, and thus born in sin. [Thanks to a brother for these comments]

Our physical state is our misfortune, not our crime. When the Bible calls it "sin" it is not referring to sin in the sense of trangression. It is a physical problem, not a moral problem. There is no guiltassociated with sin in its second definition. We only become guilty when we violate God's moral principles, or we fail to do those things which He has commanded.

Clean flesh claims that sin is either (1) "literal sin" by which they mean transgression or (2) purely a figure of speech, a metonymy, with nothing behind the figure of speech. Ask yourself reader, when has a figure of speech pointed to nothing? It is a violation of simple logic for the "figure" must point to a thing to be a figurative expression! Other clean flesh teachers claim the figure of speech means carnal thinking. Clean flesh has long claimed that our physical bodies are not the 2nd definition of the word sin, but rather they claim our thinking, "the mind", is the problem.

Note: The brain, when functioning, provides consciousness which consists of "thoughts" or "the mind". When we are told "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Phil 2:5), we are being told to have the same thinking as Christ, not his brain.

There are those who dismiss the pioneer writings and want a "Scripture only" answer. The following attempts to be just that. It can also serve as a reference or reminder of the evidences during discussions with other brothers and sisters about the subject.

Romans 6 -- The "body of sin"

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body (soma) of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body (soma), that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” – Romans 6:1-13

There are several ‘issues’ in this section of Paul’s words, recorded under Spirit inspiration. Firstly there his reference to Christ’s death: "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” The emphasis here is on the word ‘his’. There is something about Christ’s death that we need to take particular note of. Then there are the matters of “the body of sin”, sin reigning in our body and obeying the lusts thereof.

Is the "body" here, which is called "the body of sin" and "your mortal body" physical or is God speaking of our mind?

Note: The Greek word for body is "soma" and usually means a human body. It occurs 146 times and is translated as “body” 144 times, “bodily” once, and “slave” once. It is never translated as "mind" or "thinking"...

• “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” – Matthew 5:29
• “And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.” – Mark 14:22
• “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” – Matthew 27:52

What is "the body of sin" which Paul states is not destroyed at baptism but a thing we look to the future for?

“Crucified with him”

Was Christ physically crucified? Why does baptism represent the crucifying of "our old man" "with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed"? Is that a physical issue or a mental issue?

Christ Jesus overcame the temptations suggested by the tempter of Matthew 4 and manifested a holy character in his life, so that he could say "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father". Therefore, why was he physically crucified? Was his physical crucifixion a literal demonstration that lusts arise from the physical "body of sin" or, as some may suppose, his crucifixion was an allegory teaching us that the lusts arise from the mind only?

What do the words "crucified with him" and "baptized into his death" teach us?

Was the the Edenic sentence upon Adam "a sentence which defiled and became a physical law of his being, and was transmitted to all his posterity" (BASF #5) or is our problem a problem merely with our thinking? Was Jesus born, like the rest of mankind, under this "sentence which defiled and became a physical law of his being" and if so, was he physically defiled or undefiled?

“Baptised into his death”

Is baptism something that we physically do with our entire body or do we sprinkle water on our foreheads like Papists? If the problem is really just with our minds or thinking, wouldn't sprinkling the forehead with water be a more appropriate ceremony?

Is the submersion of the body in water at baptism a figure of the putting to death of "the body of sin" or is it only a figure of putting to death unholy thoughts?

Does the act of arising from the water also signify a physical change, or only a mental change?

At baptism, are we baptised into his death, or baptised into something else? Why is the Apostolic formula baptism "into his death" and not baptism into his life of perfect obedience? What is comprehended in the phrase "his death"? Does it include the concept of the condemnation of "sin in the flesh"?

Is the the intent of baptism and the yielding of ourselves unto God that "the body of sin might be destroyed", a signifying of Christ's death and resurrection as the example of our hope of a physical change, to wit, the redemption of the body; or does baptism represent the crucifixion of Jesus as an innocent victim upon whom "our sins" were literally laid as a substitutionary sacrifice, including those sins that were not committed until after his sacrifice in the following 2000 years and those yet to be committed by mortals in the coming millennial age?

If we have a "body of sin", are our bodies unclean or clean? Are they defiled or undefiled?

If Jesus came in the same physical nature as we have, was his body unclean or clean? Was his body defiled or undefiled?

“The lusts thereof”

When God instructs us "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof" are "the lusts thereof" spoken of by God as originating from and reigning in "your mortal body" or in the mind? Why was the word "body" used instead of mind?

2 Corinthians 5:21 -- "made him to be sin"

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” – 2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be hamartia for us, who knew no hamartia; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” – 2 Corinthians 5:21

266 μαρτία [hamartia /ham·ar·tee·ah/] n f. From 264; TDNT 1:267; TDNTA 44; GK 281; 174 occurrences; AV translates as “sin” 172 times, “sinful” once, and “offense” once.

Approximately 95% of the English translations of the Bible do NOT translate this verse to mean, "made him to be a sin offering", whereas clean flesh teachers do. The English translations consistently state that Jesus was "made sin", NOT "made a sin offering". Why would the translators, who hold the ideas of the apostasy, refuse to make this "sin offering" when that would be consistent with their own beliefs? Is there something in the Greek that forces them to be more honest with the Spirit inspired text than clean flesh theorists are?

How was Jesus "made to be sin"? Was he made a figure of speech? Was Jesus made a metonymy for wrong thinking, carnal mindedness?

Romans 8:23 -- "to wit, the redemption of our body"

“And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” – Romans 8:23

Why does our body need redemption?

If, as clean flesh teachers (incorrectly) claim, the word "atonement" is only used in relation to moral guilt, then what is the Apostle speaking of when he speaks of "the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body"?

Did Jesus have the same physical nature as we do, and if he did, did he also need the redemption of his body? If not, why not? If so, what was he redeemed from?

1 Corinthians 15:48-50 -- "neither doth corruption inherit incorruption"

“As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” – 1 Corinthians 15:48-50 “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” – Romans 7:24

Does God through the apostle Paul equate the physical nature of mankind "flesh and blood" with "corruption"?

5356 φθορά [phthora /fthor·ah/] n f. From 5351; TDNT 9:93; TDNTA 1259; GK 5785; Nine occurrences; AV translates as “corruption” seven times, “to perish + 1519” once, and “destroy” once. 1 corruption, destruction, perishing. 1a that which is subject to corruption, what is perishable.

Here is every occurrence of the Greek word phthora or corruption:

• “Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” – Romans 8:21
• “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:” – 1 Corinthians 15:42
• “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” – 1 Corinthians 15:50
• “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” – Galatians 6:8
• “Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?” – Colossians 2:22
• “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” – 2 Peter 1:4
• “But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;” – 2 Peter 2:12
• “While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.” – 2 Peter 2:19

Is corruption indicative of a defiled physical nature or a clean physical nature?
Paul says he, and we need to be delivered "from the body of this death* [thanatos]"

*2288 θάνατος, θάνατος [thanatos /than·at·os/] n m. From 2348; TDNT 3:7; TDNTA 312; GK 2505 and together with Strongs 1 as GK 115; 119 occurrences; AV translates as “death” 117 times, and “deadly” twice.

Was Adam made mortal? Did Adam become mortal after he sinned? Is a body of death a defiled body or an undefiled body?
Was Jesus's physical nature exactly like our own, "flesh and blood", or was it somehow different? Would his physical nature as a mortal also properly be termed "corruption"? If not, what kind of nature did he have?
A clean flesh teacher recently wrote, "Yet in all the New Testament accounts and letters there is care about the terminology used of the Lord. Nowhere is he described as unclean..." (The Atonement,page 16). Was care taken by God, putting Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to write about the mortal body of man? Was Jesus a man? Was Jesus "made like unto his brethren"? Did Jesus come "in the flesh"? Is 1st Corinthians a New Testament letter?

John 1:29 -- "which taketh away the sin of the world"

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the SIN of the world.” – John 1:29

Most of the world's sins will not be forgiven so this verse cannot mean that the world's sins are taken away in the sacrifice of Christ. Forgiveness is conditional (1st John 1:9; Acts 26:18). How then is it that when the Lord Jesus Christ comes upon the world scene that John says of him, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the SIN [singular] of the world"? Why is the word, chosen by the Spirit of God, singular rather than plural? What does this verse mean?

How was this verse understood by Christadelphians from circa 1850-1989 and does it bother you that the beliefs of the community are changing? Is there a Scriptural word for the abandonment or renunciation of formerly held beliefs?

Hebrews 7:26-27 -- "Holy, harmless and undefiled", "for this he did once"

“And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.” – Hebrews 7:20-28 “And since this was not done without a sworn affirmation – for the others have become priests without a sworn affirmation, but Jesus did so with a sworn affirmation by the one who said to him, “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever’” – accordingly Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. And the others who became priests were numerous, because death prevented them from continuing in office, but he holds his priesthood permanently since he lives forever. So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. For it is indeed fitting for us to have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separate from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need to do every day what those priests do, to offer sacrifices first for their own sins and then for the sins of the people, since he did this in offering himself once for all. For the law appoints as high priests men subject to weakness, but the word of solemn affirmation that came after the law appoints a son made perfect forever.” – Hebrews 7:20-28 (NET)

Clean flesh teachers frequently quote Hebrews 7:26 that Jesus was "holy, harmless and undefiled". Based on the context of this verse, is this verse actually speaking of Jesus after his resurrection, or as clean fleshers consistently represent, during the days of his mortality?

Was he "made priest" "for ever after the order of Melschisidec" "because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood" "seeing he liveth to make intercession for them" during the days of his mortality?

When clean flesh teachers quotes this verse, why do they leave out the phrase "and made higher than the heavens"? Is this an infallible clue as to time this verse is in reality speaking of?

Why do clean flesh teachers never point out the context of this verse and why do they apply it unconditionally to Jesus during the days of his mortality? Why do they prefer to quote verse 26 but not verse 27?

Does Paul, by spirit inspiration assert "THIS HE [Jesus Christ] DID ONCE, when he offered up himself" as the antitype of "first for his own sins, and then for the people’s"? Why, if Jesus offered only "then for the people's" does Paul include the aspect of the High Priest offering for himself? Paul knew how to excerpt a quote for this is what he did under Spirit inspiration. Why was "first for his own sins", the type, included in the statement "this he did once" the antitype?

Why do clean flesh teachers deny the very Word of God which says of the Lord's sacrifice was first for himself, and then for the people?

If you are interested to see how Christadelphians explained "holy, harmless and undefiled" in years past, here are some references.

Romans 3:25, 1st Peter 1:19 -- "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood", "redeemed... with the precious blood of Christ"

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousnessfor the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.” – Romans 3:24-27 “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.” – 1 Peter 1:18-21

According to the revealed will of God which is recorded for a testimony to be received in the Bible, could Christ have died from old age or from an accident and his life of obedience have been sufficient to "declare God's righteousness"? If not (and the prophecies regarding Messiah, as well as the recorded life of Christ plainly indicates that such was not acceptable to God,) then why not? Please take time to think this one through.

Has God "set forth" Jesus "to be a propitiation through faith in his blood" or "to be a propitiation through faith in his perfect life of obedience"?

How did the shedding of Jesus's blood declare God's righteousness when Jesus was "holy, harmless, and undefiled" (as to character) and never committed any sins whether in thought or action?

Is the remission of sins "through the forbearance of God" or did God literally lay "our sins" upon Jesus, as a substitute, when he was crucified? If they were actually laid upon Jesus in some way, why do we still require the forbearance of God?

Romans 5:18 -- "judgment came upon all men to condemnation"

“For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.” – Romans 5:17-18

Was Jesus, as a son of Adam (Matthew 1:1:, Luke 3:38), "the seed of Abraham" (Galatians 3:16, Hebrews 2:16) under the condemnation the rest of humanity was under or was he free from that condemnation?

Was Jesus mortal? Was Jesus part of "all men"?

Was Jesus mortal because Adam sinned or because of something Jesus did himself? (I cringe to ask the question but the question is one that challenges the theory of clean flesh at its core).

Was Jesus under the reign of death that came upon all mankind through Adam's offense?

Was Jesus a son of Adam, son of Abraham, son of David born from the same stock as the rest of mankind?

Was Jesus therefore in need of redemption?

Redemption: 3085 λύτρωσις [lutrosis /loo·tro·sis/] n f. From 3084; TDNT 4:351; TDNTA 543; GK 3391; Three occurrences; AV translates as “redemption” twice, and “redeem + 4160” once. 1 a ransoming, redemption. 2 deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin.

Hebrews 2:14 -- "Him that had the power of death"

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.” – Hebrews 2:14-17

Is the word "devil" or diabolos a personification of "sin" in Hebrews 2:14 "Him that had the power"?

According to God, is "him that has the power of death" the "devil"? In other words, is "the devil" of Hebrews 2:14 the power of or cause of mortality, or is mortality, as some suppose (without Scriptural evidence; and contrary to Hebrews 2:14), a power unto itself and thus (the false claim) that mortality is the causal agent of death?

Is Hebrews 2:14 specifically speaking of Christ Jesus or someone else?

When God says that Jesus "likewise took part of the same" "flesh and blood" and that "he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham" was he speaking of a physical thing or was He saying that Jesus manifested a carnal mindedness as all other sons of Adam have? (which is blasphemy for Christ said, "he who hath seen me hath seen the Father" and it certainly wasn't a statement regarding his physical presence but rather his mind and character)

What connection is God trying to draw our minds to between "flesh and blood", "he also himself likewise took part of the same", "he took not on him the nature of angels;but he took on him the seed of Abraham" and the statement "that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death". Is this a physical relationship or a mental relationship? If it is not mental, and our problem is mental as clean flesh claims, why not?

Does the Apostle represent the victory over diabolos by Jesus's life of perfect obedience or "through death"? Why?

If God is speaking of Jesus physically being under the power of diabolos, during the days of his mortality, was it because he had a physical "body of sin" like the rest of the seed of Abraham or was it because "our sins" were literally laid upon Christ as a substitutionary sacrifice?

A clean flesh teacher wrote, "Yet in all the New Testament accounts and letters there is care about the terminology used of the Lord. Nowhere is he described as unclean..." (The Atonement, page 16). Is the diabolos clean or unclean? Was care taken by God, putting Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to write about Jesus's body? Is the book of Hebrews a New Testament letter?

Is it not clear from Hebrews 2:14 that Jesus was physically related to sin, the diabolos, but as to character, "holy, harmless and undefiled"?

Romans 7 -- "Sin that dwelleth in me", "I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members"

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. Butsin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” – Romans 7

When Paul says he is "carnal, sold under sin" is he speaking of his physical body, "the flesh", "the body of this death", "my members" [Greek melos: a body or its parts] or is he saying, as some suppose, that he is carnally minded? Wouldn't the claim that he is speaking of his mind be a contradiction of his own words "I delight in the law of God after the inward man", "[the evil] I hate", "for to will [to do that which is good] is present with me", "with the mind I myself serve the law of God", "another law... warring against the [righteous] law of my mind" and a contradiction of his words in Romans 8:

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” – Romans 8:4-8

Is it not obvious that both of the words "carnal" and "flesh" are used in two different ways in the Bible?:

(1) a physical state that exists so long as we are mortal, "sold under sin"

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin... So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” – Romans 7:14, 25

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” – 1 Peter 4:1

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:” – 2 Corinthians 10:3

“Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” – 1 John 4:2-3
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” – 2 John 7

(2) a mental/moral state which is at enmity with God and cannot be made subject to the law of God

“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” – Romans 8:6-7

“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” – Romans 8:8

This explanation is consistent with how Christadelphians explained these two words in years past. Here are some references.

When Paul spoke of "the law of sin" and "another law in my members [melos]" was he speaking of a law in his body or, as some suppose, another law in his mind? If Paul, speaking by the Spirit of God, meant to say the law that warred against his mind was another law in his mind, why did he use the word for "body" instead of "mind"?

Notice carefully the Spirit's emphasis in Romans 7:

• the motions of sin
• did work in our members
• I found to be unto death
• sin, working death in me
• I am carnal, sold under sin
• sin that dwelleth in me
• that is, in my flesh
• sin that dwelleth in me
• evil is present with me
• I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members
• who shall deliver me from the body of this death
• but with the flesh the law of sin

If, as some suppose, being carnally minded was an inescapable law within Paul's mind, how would one properly define "doubleminded" as in "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways" (James 1:8)? “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” – Romans 8:7

Paul speaks of "sin that dwelleth in me" "that is, in my flesh". Does this describe a problem of the body or a problem of the mind?

Is the Greek word melos used anywhere in Spirit inspired Word to mean anything other than a person, a body, or parts of the body such as the tongue (James 3:6), the eye (Matthew 5:29), the hand (Matthew 5:30)?

If not, why is Paul made here falsely to say that "the law [is] in his members", if "the law of sin" is really "the law of his mind" warring against the righteous law of his mind?

Can it honestly be claimed that "the law of sin which is in my melos" was not actually in Paul's body (and is thus called a "body of sin") but was actually in his mind?

Romans 8:3 -- God "condemned sin in the flesh". "The body is dead because of sin" (in the flesh)

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” – Romans 8:3-13

How did God condemn sin in the flesh? Did God condemn "the body of sin" or did he condemn carnal thinking in the physical crucifixion of His son?

If "sin in the flesh" is carnal mindedness, how could Christ be made carnally minded and yet be without sin? How could he condemn that which he did not have?

Hymn 78 in the 1874, 1932 and 1942 hymn books all proclaim of Jesus Christ,
He was made sin in flesh to show
The way of life and love ;
For us He gave His life below,
And pleads for us above.

How would Christadelphians have understand this hymn which says he was "made sin in flesh"? Does this sound physical or mental?

What does Paul mean when he says "IF CHRIST BE IN YOU the body is dead because of sin"? If the problem is with our thinking, why does he mention the body instead of the mind?

Was Jesus mortal? Was his body "dead because of sin"? Who's sin was the cause of Jesus being born mortal?

If "sin in the flesh" is a mental condition, as clean flesh claims, and God condemned "sin in the flesh" by "sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh" is this not the same thing as saying Jesus had a carnal mind? What is the difference in saying he was carnally minded and what some Jews said of Jesus, "He hath a devil" or unsound mind (John 10:20)?

What does Paul mean when he says "mortify the deeds of the body"? Why did he not say, "mortify the deeds which your mind or heart desires to commit?"

Hebrews 9:23-28 -- "the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these", "the second time without sin"

“It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified (katharizo) with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” – Hebrews 9:23-28 “But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.” – Hebrews 9:11-12

2511 καθαρίζω, καθερίζω [katharizo /kath·ar·id·zo/] v. From 2513; TDNT 3:413; TDNTA 381; GK 2751 and 2760; 30 occurrences; AV translates as “cleanse” 16 times, “make clean” five times, “be clean” three times, “purge” three times, and “purify” three times.

It was therefore necessary that the heavenly things be purified with better sacrifices than those offered under the Mosaic Law.
According to the Word of God, does Hebrews 9:23-28 state that Jesus is part of the "heavenly things" that needed purification by sacrifice?
Did Jesus's mind need to be purified by sacrifice or was it his body?
Can a body which is already clean and undefiled be purified?
Does God tell us that Jesus offered for himself once in the end of the world (the Mosaic age)?
Was that offering to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself? How did he put away sin by the sacrifice of himself?
If he will appear the second time without sin, does that not suggest he appeared the first time with sin? Is there a link between bearing the sins of many and how he bore sin the first time?
If one prefers the translation that he will appear the second time without a sin offering, what sin offering did he make the first time he appeared? Which Scripturally qualifies as a sin offering: crucifixion of the serpent flesh or living a life of obedience?
Did Jesus obtain eternal redemption? If so, on what basis did he need redemption?
Does the book of Hebrews teach that Jesus entered into heaven by his own blood or by living a life of perfect obedience?
Clean flesh teachers claim that the book of Hebrews is a book contrasting (a contrast highlights dissimilarities) the Mosaic Law with the work of Christ. Were the Mosaic ceremonies "figures of the true" and "the patterns of things in the heavens" or as clean flesh teachers claim, a "contrast" to Christ?
Are clean flesh teachings a contrast to the Word of God?

Isaiah 53:6, 1st Peter 2:24 -- "the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all", "who his own self bare our sins in his own body"

“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.” – Isaiah 53:6 “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.” – 1 Peter 2:24

Is the iniquity of us all, "sin in the flesh", or is it our transgressions? Was he a representative or a substitute? Be honest to self, God and man.

Were our sins literally put "in his own body" and if so, how is that possible seeing that our sins were not committed when he died?

What is the relationship between Christ's physical death and our "being dead to sins"?

How are we healed by the stripes he suffered? He never sinned yet he suffered. Was he a representative or a substitute? Be honest to self, God and man.

Are the Papists and clean flesh teachers right when they say that Christ had our sins literally placed upon him when he hung on the tree?
Were our sins pinned on Christ like medals are pinned on a soldier? (Some older brethren from Australia will understand the allusion)

Ephesians 2:3 -- "the desires of the flesh and of the mind"

“Among whom also we all had our lifestyle in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” – Ephesians 2:3

Was God saying the same thing twice when He stated "fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind"?

Hebrews 13:20 -- "that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant"

“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” – Hebrews 13:20-21

According to Hebrews 13:20, was Jesus brought from the dead through living a perfect life of obedience or through the blood of the everlasting covenant?

Was Jesus redeemed by his own blood?

Is there a parallel teaching in Hebrews 9:12?:

“Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.” – Hebrews 9:12

John 3:14 -- "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up"

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up” – John 3:14

Does the "serpent" represent the physical nature of mankind in which exists the “law of sin”, “that physical principle [or law] of the animal nature, . . . 'which has the power of death,' and it is called sin, because the development, or fixation of this evil in the flesh was the result of transgression“?

Did Christ intend to take our minds back to Eden when the serpent thinking brought the physical curse upon the world that brought disease and death?

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” – John 8:44

If Jesus was "holy, harmless and undefiled" and "clean" during the days of his mortality, how could Jesus be like the serpent? What did brass represent?

Do you believe, in your heart, that when God told Moses to put a brass serpent on a stake that He intended those who looked upon it to see something "holy" and "undefiled"? What in the account would have led an Israelite to that conclusion?

Is there anywhere in the Bible that a serpent represents "holy" and "undefiled"? If not, why would people claim that is what it means here? Even in the Kingdom age, in God's Holy Mountain, "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat"! Why is dust the serpent's food in the millennial age? Is that a holy and undefiled position?

How could Jesus be the antitype, as he describes himself?

How was Jesus associated with the serpent principle? Physically or mentally?

Does the serpent represent a macculate (unclean) or immaculate (clean) condition?

If the sin principle was manifested mentally in Christ, as some suppose, what does it mean when we are commanded to "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Phil 2:5) "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" (Ephesians 4:24)

If you are interested to see how Christadelphians explained this in years past, here are some references.

Consider these verses:

• “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” – John 3:15
• “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” – Galatians 1:6-8
• “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” – John 5:39
• “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” – John 6:54
• “Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.” – John 12:44
• “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” – John 17:3
• “ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist... If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:” – 2 John 7,10 

Is salvation based upon properly understanding Jesus Christ or not?

John 12:27-32 -- "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth..."

“Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.” – John 12:27-32 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Ofjudgment, because the prince of this world is judged.” – John 16:7-11

Who is "the prince of this world" which Jesus Christ refers to?
If Jesus's mission was completed in a life of complete obedience why was "this hour", the hour of his death, set apart as special in his mind: "for this cause came I unto this hour"?
If Jesus's mission was completed in living a life of complete obedience why was "this hour" the hour of "judgment of this world"?
If Jesus's mission was completed in living a life of complete obedience why could he have not said that the prince of this world had been cast out for 33 1/2 years?
What relationship does Jesus Christ draw between "the prince of this world" being cast out and him being "lifted up from the earth"?

1st John 3:8 -- He that committeth sin is of the devil

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” – 1 John 3:8

Is "the devil" here a personification of sin in the flesh?
If something is personified, does that mean the thing personified doesn't really exist? If "death is in the pot", and that's just a figure of speech, is it OK to eat from the pot?
Destroy:

3089 λύω [luo /loo·o/] v. A root word; TDNT 2:60; GK 3395; 43 occurrences; AV translates as “loose” 27 times, “break” five times, “unloose” three times, “destroy” twice, “dissolve” twice, “put off” once, “melt” once, “break up” once, and “break down” once.

Does 1st John 3:8 present the idea that the Messiah was manifested to loosen us or unbind us from the consequences of the fall in Eden, where sin became corporealised?
Is there a parallel thought found in these verses?

• “Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.” – Psalm 68:18
• “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.” – Ephesians 4:8

Why does it say "the devil sinneth from the beginning"? Is this not referring to Eden, the antitype of the serpent being sin in the flesh? What is "the devil" that sinneth from the beginning?

Galatians 3:13-14 -- "being made a curse for us"

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” – Galatians 3:13-14

How was Christ "made a curse for us" that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles?
Did God, in His foreknowledge of His plan of redemption through Christ, include the provision, "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree", to bring Christ Jesus under the curse of the Law? Why would He, with His foreknowledge of the future, do this?
What does the tree represent in Scripture, and in particular, its use in Mosaic appurtenances? Was Jesus the "body prepared"?
In 2nd Corinthians 3:7 the Mosaic Law is called "the ministration of death" because everyone under the Law was brought under its curse and its curse consisted of legal or ritual defilements. What were those defilements typical of? Being unclean until the 7th day foreshadowed what?
Was there anything that was cursed that was then "clean" and "undefiled"? Is Galatians a New Testament letter?
Was the condemnation that was universal under the Mosaic Law, "the ministration of death", a type of the universality of death and therefore that which has the power of death, sin in the flesh?

John 8:34; Romans 3:9, 6:7 -- "the servant of sin", "they are all under sin", "he that is dead is freed from sin"

“Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” – John 8:34 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin” – Romans 3:9 “For he that is dead is freed from sin.” – Romans 6:7

If the word sin, as clean flesh teachers claim, is either transgression or a figure of speech, how can a person be a servant to a figure of speech? How can both Jew and Gentile be under a figure of speech? How does death free one from a figure of speech?

Do these ideas make any sense?:

whosoever committeth transgression is the servant of transgression

we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under transgression

for he that is dead is freed from transgression

Would it be safe to say that those who interpret these verses as "transgression" are guilty of disregarding metonymy and ellipsis?

Romans 5:12-21 -- Death, Disobedience, "Made Sinners" by One Man; Righteousness, Justification, Eternal Life by One Man

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” – Romans 5:12-21

Did all mankind come under the power of death through Adam's sin or their own sin? If not by Adam's sin, why does Paul represent mankind as coming under condemnation by one man and then contrast that condemnation with "the free gift" that comes "by one, Jesus Christ"? Was Paul speaking by inspiration when he contrasted these two positions, condemnation and justification, each coming by one man?
Why does he say "by the offence of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation" and contrast that with "the righteousness of one", Jesus Christ?
Why does he say that by one man's disobedience many were made sinners and then contrast that to the principle that through the obedience of one man, many shall be made righteous?
How were we "made sinners" by Adam's sin? Is our inheritance from Adam physical (with moral implications) or purely mental as clean flesh teachers claim?
Christ Jesus was under the condemnation common to the rest of humanity and denying that fact and denying what he accomplished first for himself and then for us is equivalent to claiming that he is a substitutionary sacrifice, no matter how many times someone claims he is our "representative" and was "involved" in his own sacrifice.

"I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill" -- Typical Teachings of God's Way of Redemption from Genesis to Malachi -- A "Pattern" Fulfilled in Christ as the Bible Teaches or a Contrast and Destroyed as Clean Flesh Teachers Claim?

“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” – Genesis 3:15 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” – Matthew 5:17-18 “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began” – Titus 1:2 “If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken” – John 10:35 “And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.” – Luke 16:17 “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:” – Luke 24:44-46 “Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” – Luke 24:26-27 “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” – John 5:39 “For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.” – Hebrews 8:3-5 “But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy spirit this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing” – Hebrews 9:7-8 “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” – Hebrews 7:27 “And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.” – Exodus 25:40 “And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount.” – Exodus 26:30 “According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.” – Exodus 39:42 “And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they had done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.” – Exodus 39:43 “And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.” – Numbers 8:4 “Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.” – Hebrews 9:18-20 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus” – Hebrews 10:19 “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.” – 1 Corinthians 10:11

A comparison is defined as " resemblance, likeness, similarity, correspondence, correlation, parallel, parity, comparability." A contrast is defined as "difference, dissimilarity, disparity, distinction, contradistinction, divergence, variance, variation, differentiation; contradiction, incongruity, opposition, polarity."

Twelve times in the book of Hebrews "better" is used. Please, look at any dictionary for the word "better". Is the word "Better" called a comparative or a contrast? Why do clean flesh teachers keep calling the book of Hebrews a contrast between Christ and the Law of Moses when God uses a comparative word, not a contrast?

If Mosaic teachings are a contrast to the work of Christ, was God leading or was He misleading His people?

Would Christ be fulfilling the Law and the Prophets by doing something different than what the types, symbols and rituals pointed forward to? What did Christ mean when he said "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill"?

Which "Scriptures" existed when Christ spoke the words, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”?

Do clean flesh teachers see something in the Law that requires them to distance themselves from it? Isn't the logical consequence of clean flesh teaching, what is called today "New Testament Christianity" which is divorced from roughly 80% of God's Word (just to begin with) and exemplified by the Apostasy?

How was Jesus bruised in the heel by the serpent power? Was Jesus mortal and if so, what made his body mortal? What has "the power of death" (Hebrews 2:14)?

How did Jesus bruise the head of the serpent power and redeem us from it, if he was not in a position to be under it's power?

Were the things taught under the Mosaic Law a contrast to the work of Christ as clean flesh teachers claim or were they "the pattern of heavenly things" as the Bible plainly states? Were they a contrast to Christ's work, as clean flesh teaches, or were they "the example and shadow of heavenly things" as the Bible teaches?

Did God's spirit signify or put into symbol, through the Mosaic Law, His Way of redemption? Did God, through His spirit, speak through the Apostles to declare plainly in their writings, the meanings of some of those symbols? If the Holy Spirit signifies a thing, that is God by His power makes a teaching known to us through symbol; and then that symbol is explained in the clear statements of the Holy Spirit by Apostlic epistles, what is to be said of the man who represents Mosaic symbol and Apostolic teaching thereon as a "contrast" to what Christ actually did?

Why does Paul, by the spirit, ask the question why "this man" Jesus Christ, as "every high priest" under the Law, had a necessity of offering something? Can a High Priest perform his duty without offering something? What did Christ Jesus offer? Are we "sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"? Was his offering taught in the saying "a body hast thou prepared me"?

Why was Moses condemned for striking the rock twice in the wilderness? Wasn't Moses creating a contrast to the work of Christ and if the Mosaic ordinances and appurtenances were a contrast to Christ as clean flesh teachers claim, wasn't Moses helping the work of God?

Why was Moses repeatedly told to make the tabernacle and its appurtenances exactly according to the pattern which Yahweh had showed him?

Why was everything under the Mosaic Law, the furniture, the veil, the High Priest, the altars etc... atoned for? Couldn't something have been left unatoned for, such as the altar or the Book of the Law? Or did clean-flesh teachers just have really bad fortune when God recorded His Word and His ideas?

Why did childbirth make a woman unclean? Can anyone honestly claim that legitimate childbirth incurs guilt? Does not this prove that uncleanness and guilt are not synonymous or interchangeable ideas?

If the Mosaic Law and its sacrifices were a contrast, why will bloodshedding sacrifices be reinstituted in the Temple of Ezekiel's prophecy, the Temple of the Future Age?

Was Mary immaculate or undefiled as Papists claim? Was Jesus immaculate or undefiled as Papists claim?

This He Did Once -- Consistent Apostolic Teaching

“For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.” – Romans 6:10 “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” – Hebrews 7:27 “But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy spirit this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing” – Hebrews 9:7-8 “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.” – Hebrews 9:12 “For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” – Hebrews 9:26 “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” – Hebrews 9:28 “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” – Hebrews 10:10 “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” – 1 Peter 3:18

How did Jesus die "unto sin once"? Did he not "live unto God" during the days of his mortality? Is his present immortality ("he liveth unto God") being contrasted to his physical death unto sin when the serpent power was wounded in the head?
How did he offer for himself once? Was it possible for the antitypical High Priest to enter into the Most Holy without an offering for himself and the people? See Hebrews 9:12.
How did Christ "put away sin" "BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF"? Was this referring to his life of obedience or was it, according to God, "through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"? Was Jesus part of the "all"? See Hebrews 9:12 and Hebrews 13:20.

Luke 2:22 -- "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished"

“And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord” – Luke 2:22

Was Mary, according to the Mosaic Law, legally unclean in giving birth to Jesus?

God was the father of Jesus. If Jesus was "clean" and "undefiled" what made Mary unclean?

Was this uncleanness indicative of guilt? Is the constitution of our body our misfortune, not our crime?

Why was giving birth to a child defiling to the mother under the Law? What was the "pattern of heavenly things" teaching us?

Why were male children circumcised under the Law on the 8th day during the time of the mother's purification? Was this to teach us that sin originates with our bodies or with our minds?

Was Mary's son Jesus immaculate as clean flesh teachers and Papists proclaim?

Hebrews 10:5 -- "but a body hast thou prepared me"

“Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:” – Hebrews 10:5

The body "prepared" for Jesus, is repeatedly described:

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” – Matthew 1:1

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same” – Hebrews 2:14

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.” – Hebrews 2:16

“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.” – Luke 3:38

“God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:” – Romans 8:3

“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.” – Hebrews 2:17

What was the purpose of "the body" prepared?

Would the perfect obedience of an angel sufficed?

Would the flesh of angels have sufficed?

Why do the Scriptures repeatedly emphasize the nature of the body of Jesus and the work accomplished through his body and the shedding of his blood, rather than in his mind or in his perfect life of obedience?

Genesis 3:17-18 -- "Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee"

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;” – Genesis 3:17-18

What is the cause of disease?

What is the cause of thorns and thistles?

Is the ground, cursed by God, and in need of constant maintenance to prevent it from bringing forth weeds (typical of sin) an allegory for human nature? Is the ground physical? Are our bodies physical?

Colossians 3:9 -- "the old man with his deeds"

“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds” – Colossians 3:9

Is the "old man" of the flesh the same thing "as his deeds"?

Is the "old man" a state or condition of human nature and "his deeds" the works which the "old man" naturally does?

Are the "works of the devil" (1st John 3:8) the same thing as "the diabolos" itself (Hebrews 2:14)? Why does the Bible differentiate between the two?

Why do clean flesh teachers make "the diabolos" equivalent to "carnal thinking"? Are they not making the cause the same thing as the effect, whereas God is telling us there is cause (the flesh, the diabolos) and effect (its deeds, its works)?

Why are clean fleshers so anxious to declare man's nature undefiled and "physically sound", "immaculate" to use a religious term?

Colossians 2:11-13 --"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands"

“In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;” – Colossians 2:11-13

As a type, why was every male, without exception, to be circumcised?

Is circumcision, the literal cutting off of flesh from the body, a figure or symbol of (1 - physical) The cutting off of sin from the body in which the power of sin resides and (2 - mental/moral) The "holding in subjection" the sinful propensities that war against the mind?

Paul speaks of "being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh". Are there one or two elements involved in this statement? When he speaks of the "uncircumcision of your flesh" was he speaking of sin in relation to the body?

If it be argued that he is speaking of literally circumcision, how is it that he speaks of "the circumcision made without hands" and the "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"?

Is "the circumcision of Christ" he speaks of what happened to Jesus when he was 8 days old, or what happened to him when he was 33 1/2 years old?

Why does he define baptism as "the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh"? Is there a parallel here to "quickened together with him"? Does this not speak of immortality when sin is actually cut off from the body and a body "quickened" or made alive is granted to the faithful in Christ?

Genesis 3:7 -- “and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons”

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.” -- Genesis 3:7

If sin originates with the thinking, and not the flesh, why didn't Adam and Eve put the fig leaf over their foreheads to cover up their nakedness?

If sin is a problem with the mind rather than the body, wouldn't man's shame from nakedness be better represented with a headband, a turban or hat rather than with

• the fig leaf apron they used,
• the "coats of skin" God clothed them with,
• the garments of the Mosaic priesthood and
• the linen clothing of the saints in immortality?

Why are the Spirit inspired symbols of covering -- atonement -- kaphar, inclusive of the entire body?

Romans 5:9-10 - "being now justified by his blood", "saved by his life"

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” – Romans 5:9-10

According to Romans 5:9, are we "justified by his blood" and "reconciled by the death of His Son" or are we justified by the perfect life of obedience that Jesus Christ lived? Why does God represent our redemption through Christ by blood and death if perfect obedience itself was the means of salvation?

Notice the contrast "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life": Why do clean flesh teachers misrepresent the phrase "Saved by His Life" to mean Jesus's life of perfect obedience, when the context of Romans 5:10 shows that "his life" is referring to his present immortality, not his mortal life of obedience?

• “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.” – Romans 6:9
• “Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.” – Hebrews 7:16
• “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;” – Hebrews 10:12
• “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.” – Colossians 3:4
• “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live” – John 11:25
• “For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.” – John 5:21
• “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” – John 5:26

Mankind Unclean In More Than One Way

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.” – 1 Corinthians 7:14 “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.” – Job 14:4  “What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?” – Job 15:14 “How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?” – Job 25:4-6 “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” – Psalm 51:5 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” – John 3:6

In what way is the unbelieving husband sanctified by the wife and the children of believers sanctified and made clean and holy? Does this teach that man, in his natural state is unclean?

Job, a man of great righteousness states that mankind is by nature unclean and unable to bring forth clean children. Are clean flesh teachers a more reliable source than Job?

The Bible declares that mankind is by birth unclean/defiled and under the Law various defilements occurred even when a sin was not committed, such as in giving birth to a child. What was the Mosaic Law teaching us by these defilements which were a "pattern of heavenly things"?

Were the teachings of the Mosaic Law really a contrast to Christ as clean flesh teachers claim? Were the Mosaic ordinances misguiding, misdirecting and deceiving those under it to believe things that were not true?

Was the Mosaic Law a teacher until the Christ should appear? Was the Law "that which is good" (Romans 7:13) and "the law is holy, the commandment is holy and just and good" (Romans 7:12), or rather as clean fleshers propose, something we should largely ignore when it comes to God's redemptive principles since we have the "clear declarative statements of the New Testament"? Why do clean flesh teachers sound like "New Testament Only Christians"?

 

Zechariah 3 -- "Take away the filthy garments from him"

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto the adversary, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by. And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men of sign: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree. – Zechariah 3:1-10

Who is "my servant the Branch" spoken of in Zechariah 3?
Who does "Joshua the High Priest" represent? Is Jesus "the great High Priest" who has come who stands in the place of the High Priests under the Mosaic Law?
Is there a relationship between the causing of "iniquity to pass from thee" and the clothing "with a change of raiment"?
What were the "filthy garments" typical of? Were they typical of the unclean body of mankind or typical of of being carnally minded?
Did the "change of raiment" symbolize a change in the physical nature? Did the "fair mitre" symbolize incorruptible holiness of mind?
If you are interested to see how Christadelphians explained this in years past, here is a reference.

1st John 4:3 and 2nd John 7 -- "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist"

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” – 1 John 4:3 “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” – 2 John 7

Was John warning us about an unheard of fringe group or "many deceivers"?

Is human nature better today than in the first century ecclesia?

Are people likely to make the same errors today as people in the 1st century?

Did the "many deceivers" merely deny Jesus came "in the flesh" or was John warning us of those who denied Jesus came "in the flesh" of Apostolic description?

Is there any evidence that many deceivers of the first century taught Jesus did not come in a physical body but in some other form?

Does not the Universal Church teach that Jesus and his mother Mary were "immaculate" in physical nature? Is not the Universal Church the leading spirit of Antichrist in Christendom? Who claims to be a Christadelphian while at the same time promoting the doctrine of Antichrist? Are they "a deceiver and an antichrist"?

Obedience and Blood -- "The Sheer Weight of Scripture" That Clean Flesh Teachers Ignore

Clean flesh teachers have promoted the obedience of Christ as THE KEY to the atonement. What emphasis is found in the Word of God?

Obedience Blood “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” – Romans 5:19 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” – Philippians 2:8 “Though he were a Son, yet learned heobedience by the things which he suffered;” – Hebrews 5:8 “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” – Matthew 26:28 “And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.” – Mark 14:24 “Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” – Luke 22:20 “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.” – John 6:53 “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” – John 6:54 “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” – John 6:55 “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.” – John 6:56 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” – Acts 20:28 “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;” – Romans 3:25 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” – Romans 5:9 “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?” – 1 Corinthians 10:16 “After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.” – 1 Corinthians 11:25 “Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.” – 1 Corinthians 11:27 “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;” – Ephesians 1:7 “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” – Ephesians 2:13 “In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:” – Colossians 1:14 “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” – Colossians 1:20 “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” – Hebrews 2:14 “But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:” – Hebrews 9:7 “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.” – Hebrews 9:12 “For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh [from the Law's legal defilements]: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” – Hebrews 9:14 “Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.” – Hebrews 9:18-20 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus” – Hebrews 10:19 “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” – Hebrews 10:29 “And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.” – Hebrews 12:24 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.” – Hebrews 13:12 “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant” – Hebrews 13:20 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” – 1 Peter 1:2 “But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:” – 1 Peter 1:19 “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” – 1 John 1:7 “This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.” – 1 John 5:6 “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” – 1 John 5:8 “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood” – Revelation 1:5 “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;” – Revelation 5:9 “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” – Revelation 7:14 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.” – Revelation 12:11 “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” – Revelation 19:13

Even Papists and their Theological Fathers Admit the Mortality of Jesus

while claiming he was immaculate

"For today you have revealed the mystery of our salvation in Christ as a light for the nations, and, when he appeared in our mortal nature, you made us new by the glory of his immortal nature." -- The Roman Catholic Missal, 3rd edition, page 544

"You know, Venerable Brethren, that after He had ruled the 'little flock' Himself during His mortal pilgrimage, Christ our Lord, when about to leave this world and return to the Father, entrusted to the Chief of the Apostles the visible government of the entire community He had founded." -- Saeculo Exeunte Octabo by Pontifex Maximus Pius XII

"In this act of Sacrifice through the hands of the priest, by whose word alone the Immaculate Lamb is present on the altar, the faithful themselves, united with him in prayer and desire, offer to the Eternal Father a most acceptable victim of praise and propitiation for the needs of the whole Church." -- Saeculo Exeunte Octabo, Mystici Corporis by Pontifex Maximus Pius XII

"Thanks to the shedding of the blood of the Immaculate Lamb, now each might set about the personal task of achieving his own sanctification, so rendering to God the glory due to Him." -- Fulgens Radiatur by Pontifex Maximus Pius XII

"Yes, for Jesus was the most insulted and maltreated of all mortals, as if he had been the last and most contemptible of men." - The Passion and Death of Jesus Christ by "Saint" Alphonsus De Liguori

"From Adam all men are mortal; but Jesus the Son of God, the Word of God, by which all things were made, the only Son equal with the Father, was made mortal 'for the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" -- On the Gospel of "St." John by "Saint" Augustine

"Therefore, since Christ's body was passible and mortal, as was said above (Q[14], A[2]), His soul also was of necessity passible in like manner." -- Summa Theologica by "Saint" Thomas Aquinas

Last Updated: 26-Jan-2015